Your best column yet, Joe

I think one of the things that I like most about model railroading is that i don't need to bother with competition unless I choose to enter a competition.  Before we both retired, I was talking with a friend and co worker about hobbies.  He mentioned that his son bought an rc race car and they took it to a race.  It was like everyone had "speed secrets" that they were afraid to let anyone else see!  His son won the race with a box stock car right off the store shelf, and they were inundated with competitors trying to find out their "speed secrets!"  I told him then that the reason that I enjoyed model railroading so much was that the model railroaders that I hung out with just enjoyed trying to help anyone else in the hobby to succeed without any sort of competition.  Needless to say I've never had anyone in the hobby try to hide or withhold some "secret method" of doing things.  I'm not the best modeler our there, but I'm a lot better now than I was when I first started in the hobby.  To anyone who is afraid to try something in the hobby for fear of failure, all I can say is practice makes better is not perfect. 

If you want to learn to paint a model or to do weathering, go pick up some toy ho scale cars at a swap meet or out of someone's junk box at a train show.  Even if you model in another scale. these cars are probably cheaper than than anything else you can get your hands on for practice.  

Never been intimidated....

I've seen stuff that had me  "wishing I was that good"  but I would never use the word "intimidated"

Michael

Inspired

I used to drool over John Allen's photos. When I switched briefly to N scale in the 60's there was very little available. So I built a 5x9 in my bedroom and learned how to do rock castings and start scratch building using a paper HO scale printed in the margins of MR. Anybody remember those? I split the HO 1 ft markings in 1/2 with a ruler. I had no idea you could actually buy one. But the paper one work of a sort. Really primitive and crude and as I found out, not to scale. At the time it worked for me.And above all I learned that yes I could build stuff and get better at it

Intimidated or Inspired?

With this hobby, never been intimidated, sometimes inspired.

In order to become a craftsman you need to become good at your craft and like what you are doing. I don't care for prototype operations or weathering cars so they look exactly like the prototype. I do admire the work that goes into such a project but have no interest myself in doing this. My interest is in the mechanical part of the hobby, as many here may have already figured that out.

Your statement about western western culture being heavily influenced by the Greeks. I'm under the distinct perception that you must not like the Olympics were only one will win the gold in their chosen field. It sounds like you are saying that the ones that strive to be at the top of their chosen field should hold back so those with less talent won't feel intimidated. If you look around in the real world you will notice that there are people with talent and those without. Trying to make everybody equal smacks of socialism.

Can you imagine if people had told Steven Job and Steven Wozniak to not intimidate others with their talent that modelers today probably won't have the iDevices to run their railroads or view this sight while sitting in the doctors office waiting?

Just saying.

Bernd

Western vs eastern worldviews

I love watching the Olympics. That said, western culture has a fetish for competition to the point that we try to make everything work that way. Trying to make every pursuit have winners and losers, or to always exalt the individual rather than the community can be a problem in my view.

My point is that both the west and the east can learn things from each other if we want the most balanced worldview. Competition is fun and useful at times, but at other times, let's focus on helping the community succeed and let's stop looking for winners and losers (and keeping score) in everything.

Clearly intimidation is at work in some cases ..

Ah, there's what I was concerned about and why I wrote this editorial - intimidation. It's clear, Az, that you feel intimidated by excellent modeling rather than inspired.

I'd like to think we can talk about more "average" modeling on here too, but the magazine doesn't seem to work well when we do publish average modeling in it - see all the flap over the Blue Box SD45 article last issue.

This all said, we have and will continue to run some "average" modeling in the magazine and hang the complaints. We don't believe it's right to just publish modeling that "mere mortals" can't touch.

Az, I do note that MR's forum is more beginners and our forum here is more advanced, so there will be more of an intimidation factor here. However, I'd like to hear from other beginners on this forum - are we being too elite? Are we intimidating newbies?

Again.... I think the word intimidated is a bad choice....

Nothing anyone has ever done modeling wise has EVER intimidated me.  That would include the work of John Allen who you all know is my personal model railroading hero.  I don't know what word to use, maybe "awed"  or "humbled" or even "amazed" ....but not "intimidated".  And in then end, no matter my initial reaction, I'm always inspired by  work I consider good.  Even when I see something and  I think "I wish I was that good", it doesn't stop me from trying.

Michael

Great subject, Joe

Really a great 'Musing' piece, as it invokes some musings of my own. 

I have to say that as I read AzBaja's comment I was a bit....saddened?  "Oh no" was what was popping in my mind as I read his words.  I don't think MRH has become 'elitist', but really I should say I hope it hasn't become elitist and I haven't noticed.  I started into model railroading about a year after this mag was founded.  I learned so much here (and books, etc) and progressed in my goals so much that, although I am far from what I'd consider 'perfect', or a 'master modeler', and I definitely don't have the 'ultimate layout', and I know just barely enough about real (prototypical) operations to be dangerous, maybe I have been blind to the needs/wants of the fellow MRHers that don't have my same goals or ideas about Model Railroading.  Maybe that word in itself is trouble: model railroading.  Is Railroad Modeler a better term? Maybe to some readers and forum members it isn't a model, its just fun to run trains.  I have a touch of that for sure-  I have, as part of my layout, two concentric ovals so I can just sit there and watch them-  I don't have to do anything for that part (unless I want to), and believe me I've sat there for an hour or two and just watched.

I sure hope MRH isn't beyond the scope of the beginner, or rather, beyond the comradeship of a fellow toy train guy!

That's why this editorial

That's why this editorial. I always like to recheck our assumptions and make sure we haven't drifted into territory that's not where we would never have gone in the beginning.

...

I don;t think he's intimidated, he just doesn't care about those subjects.

I myself really get a kick out of model railroading, but every time I see railroad modeling, I groan.  Another clever invention without actually inventing anything...

"If I never see another post

"If I never see another post about wow that looks so real I could not tell it was a model etc.  well that would be too soon.  getting tired of the suck ups and yes man line of post.  Why not a post on how you did it etc."

As for congratulatory posts, well, I've made my share, and I think it only fair and polite to do so when I see something that impresses me.

I see plenty of informative posts on here. A quick check of the Scenery and Structures section reveals all sorts of things. I think many here are willing to share their experiences, positive and negative, as they happen, and most if not all topics are relevant to modellers of all levels of experience.

I will say though, that these threads can get buried very quickly when, as I do, you rely on the 'Recent' button.

Also I feel that probably everyone, if asked, would be only too happy to provide details on how they achieved the results they did, and that some feel more comfortable with being asked first, rather than dishing out unsolicited advice.

Anyway, in short I don't feel this forum is elitist. There are loads of helpful people here, and there's no need for anyone to feel intimidated or discouraged.

Never intimidated - always inspired

John Allen inspired me. If I could show you my first attempt at duplicating some of his work you would all get a good laugh! But to me, at the time, it looked beautiful.

George Sellios inspired me. It will probably take another 10 years or so until I can get close to him (and John).

Am I a better modeler then others? Maybe better then some. But: as good as I might (hopefully) be I'm not even close to many of the other modelers that show their work in this forum every day. Should I be intimidated? Not at all - but seeing their work and techniques allows me to improve my skills over time. Isn't that the concept of the forum? Why else come here every day? Why else show your own work if not to get good (and sometimes not so good) advice! Even if you are a beginner, especially as a beginner this is the right place to come.

Inspiration

The photos in the forum and magazine as well as articles and forum posts are full of great ideas and for this reason I am inspired by the great work done by other modelers. Keep up the great work.

I'm with Michael

No reason to be intimidated, its only an opportunity to improve - if you want to improve.  In the last five years, I have improved a lot because of MRH and the work and ideas that come from here.  Rarely does a week go by where I don't learn something else from here.  Some are small, some are bigger things, but its about improving.  Seems rather pointless to get worked up over modeling that is better than my own, because there is a tonne of it.  I'm learning and enjoying what I'm doing, and I'm just an average modeler.  A few people on here annoy me, sure, but so many more make it a great place to stop by.

It's all about learning new

It's all about learning new things. Now matter what your skill or experience level is, you should always keep trying to learn more, in skills and knowledge. I find that this forum (MRH) has a superb level of expertise and knowledge. I'm pretty new at model railroading having getting back into or, into it in about 2006. When I was a kid, dad did all the modeling and I ran the trains. Now I have to figure out how to make them run. I still have my lionel train from when I was 7. Set it up a few years ago, and. aside of replacing the power cord for the transformer (it crumbled when I unwraped it) I set up an ova,l put the trains on the track and away it went. Didn't even oil the sucker. (I should have) I must have watched it for an hour. Going round and round. Just sectional track on a door sitting on saw horses.  No track cleaning no scenery. no buildings, bridges, no nothing. Amazing for sitting in boxes for almost 50 years. It ran. The longer I watched, the more I imagined a real layout with all the extras. Built by me.

I found MRH as I tried to research model railroading. The first issue wasn't out yet. Delayed subscribing for a bit, (afraid of spam) but finally did. Started reading the forum and discovered a bunch of model railroad enthusiasts exchanging all their secrets and techniques that they have learned  and wanted to share. It amazed me. At first I felt intimidated, then amazed what these guys are doing, then inspired to learn how to do that. This forum is full of modelers with super skills, expert knowledge and are sharing how they did it. There are also lots of new comers to the hobby. Have a question, just ask. Nobody is afraid of helping a new guy out with a 'stupid' question. There's no such thing. Keep learning and Intimidation, turns into inspiration all on it's own. It's magic!  What a great hobby...

Randy

Always Inspired?

I think that's exactly right.  Most of the people here who post work that inspires me are willing to share how they do it.  By limiting your participation to where you perceive that nobody's work is too much better than yours, you only succeed in shortchanging yourself.

Complaints about supposed elitism on this or any other forum are often self-contradictory.  In one breath someone will mention how much he dislikes the criticism his own modeling might receive, and in the next he dislikes the praise someone else receives.

MRH represents a level of modeling skil

Honestly ...

... I did not give Joe's column this month much thought; other than thinking he had run out of things to editorialize about ... (as if that could ever happen, heh).  But, judging from the level of feedback that has been generated, I am clearly in the minority camp on this issue.

I truly enjoy all levels of effort that have been displayed in these forums.  I give great kudos to any who have taken the time to share their work with others here.  Yes, there are a handful who continuously challenge my ability to distinguish model from prototype (and more and more often, I find myself unable to 'prove' it is a model); but the truly inspiring modelers (in my opinion) are the 'regular modelers'; who post here; for it is examples of their work that I can realistically attempt to emulate.  Yes, I can tell it is a model, often without too much difficulty ... but hey, it IS a model!  

It is all good.  Plenty of server space for all comers.  Cheers.  Dave O

Modeling

Not intimidated, but strive for excellence for yourself.  Always a good source of ideas and information.  Inspiring the hobbyist at all levels.

Just one thing, Joe you need a better picture.  You look discussed with the whole thing.

But keep up the great work

gnnp

But the paper ones work of a sort.

I still use paper rulers for making parts, I draw the size I want on the edge of a sheet of note paper then I don't have to keep checking the size with a ruler. Same technique as using a story stick to build cabinets or line out sidewall shingles...DaveB

I have started to move away from MRH

Don't do that. We all lose when one doesn't share what they are doing. I've never met a modeler that didn't have a good idea about how to do something better or easier.  If you are doing something more fulfilling with the time that would have been spent making a superior model I'd view that as liberating instead of intimidating. When it stops being fun that's the time to call the model good enough is my viewpoint....DaveB

I have no problem with it!

Most of the time I'm inspired, sometimes frustrated, but never intimidated!  What inspires me is just being able to see what great modeling is about ( Mike Confalone comes to mind ) and try to incorporate what I see into my modeling.  If i can improve a scene by seeing what somebody else has done, then that's a benefit!  Sometime I get frustrated because I know my limitations and really would like to move past them at times.  But as for being intimidated, never!  I consider the skills I have in my areas of strength (Mechanical/electrical) are very good and on par with with others in that area.  Where I feel my area of weakness is, is scenery.  I plod along and do my best and read as much about how to improve that aspect of the hobby for myself.   Joe, you mentioned how much flack you got about the Athearn SD45 article, but that's the kind of stuff that drives this hobby!  I would like to see more articles like that!  (I'm working on one!)  I think the flack you received was overrated in that a select few modelers thought that this type of reading is below them and that they think that they are much better than that.  Well, my answer to that is, "why don't you write an article about something  to show off your skills"  and that rest of us can see how good you really are!   I felt bad about the author that wrote the Blue Box article because I know he put his best into it and touched on some really key points just to have a few naysayers shoot him down.  Shame on them!!!!!!... This is a hobby, NOT A CONTEST!

Joe and the whole staff at MRH,  Keep up the good work and never mind the naysayers! Negativity sucks!  Nuff said!

Value for the average modeler

There's no question that the bar is raising around here. You can tell just by looking at the photos in recent posts compared to threads four or five years old. Average modelers are not putting up pictures of their stuff, but they are still here lurking or asking occasional questions.

But I don't think elitist is the proper term. Every level modeler is welcome, criticism is civil and appropriate*, and the flames of last summer have been subdued. What is happening is self selection. I have nothing to post that comes close to Tom Johnson (a random choice among dozens), so instead of posting my work I ask questions or contribute to discussions in my narrow areas of expertise. Since my expertise is pretty deep in that narrow realm I am comfortable contributing and feel that I am among friends. Thousands of others are probably more timid. Maybe I'll post some of my average work just to help restore balance.

I suspect Joe's worry is that if the site and magazine are perceived as elitist, he won't get enough subscribers to keep the business afloat. I wish he could implement the basics wiki that was suggested a couple of years ago. That would pull in a segment of readers that are still looking to MR for the specific information they need to get to the next step.

pqe

*With the possible exception of video quality-- there have been some inappropriate jibes for something so far removed from this forum's concerns.

I think this is a very good

I think this is a very good place to come for inspiration. I'm not one to get intimidated per se, I just see things as a challenge and reason to strive to do better. I've seen a lot of the modelers on this site that are more than happy to show how they do things. It seems like modelers of all types love to come together to show people how to do things. If you want to see cut throat hobbyist, try learning automotive photography. Their methods are locked in a vault and the jaws of life wouldn't even be able to pry any tips out of those guys. I have considerably more invested in photography than model railroad equipment and I've always been on the fence on whether I want to continue my photography aspirations. Quitting model railroading has never crossed my mind and it's the people that share my interest that make the difference. This is a great publication and I will continue to come here for guidance and inspiration.

Tristan