MRH

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Please post any comments or questions you have here.

Reply 0
David Husman dave1905

Modern Canadian Practice

The article on maintenance flags reflects modern Canadian practice and US practice is a bit different.

The use of flags to protect track work only goes back to the 1960's or so.  Rule books prior to that have no mention of using flag to protect track workers.  The use of the yellow-red flag goes back to the 1980's, prior to that most US roads only used yellow flags.

US flags were on short (3-4 foot tall) single posts until the 1990's or later when they went to taller posts.

US practice was to put a yellow flag 2 miles from the beginning of the temporary speed restriction or work area.  If it was for worker protection there would be a red flag if the track was to be fouled at the beginning of the work area, if it was a slow order there was no flag at the beginning of the speed restriction.  At the end of the work area or speed restriction there would be a green flag.

Beginning in the 1980 or 1990's in the US railroads gradually changed over to a yellow red flag for track worker protection.  That was a flag divided into quarters diagonally with alternating quadrants yellow and red.  The plain yellow flag was only used for temporary speed restrictions.  In the late 1990's the rules changed to require a stop flag be used with a yellow red flag.  Prior to that the stop was optional.

The backs of the signs are NOT painted.  That eliminates confusion over the start of the restriction.  Normally they are plain aluminum.  I think the author meant picture #13 to mean the end of a speed restriction where viewer/camera/train is approaching the beginning of a temporary speed restriction with the yellow flag marking the beginning for trains in the viewers direction and the green flag marking the end of the restrictionfor trains coming towards the viewer.  What that actually tells me is that I am in a speed restriction and once I pass the green flag I will be out of the speed restriction, plus there is another speed restriction two miles from the yellow flag.

The blue flag is not a "maintenance" flag its a mechanical department flag.  Two different groups.  The blue flag protects workers on, under or about the rolling equipment.  Technically it should only be used to protect railroad workers.  Many industries use a blue flag on their tracks although technically they should be using a white flag.  The blue flag on page 84 could be considered not in compliance with the rules since it appears to be protecting equipment, not mechanical dept. workers (they probably should be using a red stop flag).

If I were going to use these flags I would pick a "flagging distance" depending on the size of my layout (2 feet, 4 feet, a train length, etc).  I would put the yellow or yellow red flags that flagging distance on either side of the restriction and then a green flag at the other end.  If it was to protect workers then a red flag at the beginning would be appropriate.

Another caveat is that you would have to give the train crews an order or bulletin for each of these restrictions.  Temporary speed restrictions are listed on Form X (train orders) or Form A (track warrants/bulletins).  Worker protections are listed on Form Y (train orders) or Form B (track warrants/bulletins).

Dave Husman

Visit my website :  https://wnbranch.com/

Blog index:  Dave Husman Blog Index

Reply 0
Geared

Flags

Yes, the article was based on modern Canadian practice mainly because the sidebar diagrams were of such high caliber.

Prior to the universal use of radios torpedoes were also used, but they are just not practical, or likely possible on a model railroad even though they are still in use. I did mention in the article that US and Canadian usage was similar not identical and that modelers who wanted to model a specific prototype would have to refer to the rules used by that prototype. I have a copy of the UCOR dated to 1951 and the yellow over red flag is pictured along with almost identical language. The other flags are not pictured, but their use is described along with torpedoes which is one of the main differences. Another significant difference is the actual distance that flags were to be placed from the defective track, or worksite. There were also Canadian roads that used white flags in the past and I have seen pictures diagonal yellow over red flags as well. 

You are right about the blue flag, but the idea here was to get all of the flags used on a railway under one heading.

According to the rules, your statement about picture 13 would be wrong. All flags are to be viewed from the engineers side of the track (direction of approach). I purposely avoided mentioning multiple track as the rules there are much more complex and I suspect few, if any, modelers would want to flag multiple track unless they had experienced operators. 

Yes, the appropriate forms would have to be issued to operators if you were to employ flags. Lots of modelers do have elaborate dispatching systems, as we all read about here in the forums and could issue such forms. I do suspect though that most modelers operate in small groups and do not have elaborate dispatching systems in place, or operate alone, so I didn't burden the article with descriptions of when the forms should be issued as I felt that the existing references in the article and the sidebar would have sufficed for the purpose of modeling.

Of course each owner of a layout would have to determine their own specified distances for the flags.

My goal was to bring to the attention of modelers that this is another aspect that they can model, should they so wish, on their layouts and maybe add a bit of fun.

 

Roy

Geared is the way to tight radii and steep grades. Ghost River Rwy. "The Wet Coast Loggers"

 

Reply 0
Roger Litwiller

I enjoyed the article on

I enjoyed the article on Maintenance Flags and Signs very much and immediately saw ways of adapting this information on to my own layout. Last night while working nights I came across a real example of this article. 

image(3).jpg 

This track maintenance unit was sitting on a passing siding in Belleville, Ontario on the CPR main line south of Dundas St. There is a red flag with a flashing red light ahead of the equipment. 

Please excuse the quality of the photo, it was taken at 3 am in the middle of a very busy night shift with a cell phone camera. 

 

Roger Litwiller -Author

View my layout, "Trenton Subdivision in N Scale" on the Railroading Page on my website.  rogerlitwiller.com

READ my MRH Blog.

Reply 0
southpawsr

Flags on a railroad

Just subscribed to the magazine. Finished reading this article and found a rr video. There was a railroad employee putting out a red flag. Thanks to the article I knew what he was doing.  Thanks

Reply 0
ctxmf74

"The use of flags to protect

Quote:

"The use of flags to protect track work only goes back to the 1960's or so. "

 I must have seen some of the first ones as I recall watching the section gang pound them into the ballast in the late 50's or early 60's. 

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