I would be quite surprised ...

... if this conversation really happened ....  Regardless, if they have folks driving hundreds of miles twice a month, they are obviously doing something right ... perhaps that is point?

Edit ... well I am quite surprised!    Joe tells me that this conversation is 100% true, so I've gotta' push the "I believe" button.  But, as I noted above, even if they are not making any (conscious) effort to promote the hobby, they are obviously attracting folks to it ... osmosis?

And for clarification: The primary function of quotation marks is to set off and represent exact language (either spoken or written) that has come from somebody else. The quotation mark is also used to designate speech acts in fiction and sometimes poetry.  

Note that is is intended for "exact language" or "fictional speech".  As it reads more like a script, it left me with the impression that it was "fictional" rather than an actual conversation ....

My thoughts exactly

I have been promoting this idea for a long time. Model railroading is my hobby, and something I do for my own enjoyment and benefit. I don't see why I should limit or adapt my hobby activities to fit in the frame of "promoting the hobby". Don't get me wrong, I love showing off my work, and talking about the hobby with anyone who will listen, but I don't see it as my job to go out and evangelize in order to recruit more modelers. The way I see it, those who are interested have a wide variety of resources for learning, both on- and offline. I want to work to the highest standard I can manage, and operate my railroad in a prototypical fashion, without worrying about somehow scaring people away.

All that being said, I know many individuals and organizations that actively work to recruit new hobbyists, and I applaud their efforts to grow the hobby. It's just not a priority for me, and I don't think that it has to be.

--
Jostein

Not sure exactly how to respond to this one.

After having done Merit Badge Academy for 97 Scouts since Nov 2013.  I think promoting is maybe the the wrong word.  How about introducing youth to a hobby I enjoy?

Fantastic work with the Boy Scouts

James, I just want to make sure I'm clear that I don't think theres anything wrong with promoting the hobby, and I think the work you and others do with the Boy Scouts is fantastic and valuable. I just don't think I deserve to be looked down on because I don't focus my own hobby activities towards that kind of thing.

--
Jostein

"limit or adapt"

Prof, Your point is well

Prof,

Your point is well made, and I know that you certainly don't compromise on quality or fineness of scale in your layouts. Models built for shows and exhibitions can certainly be made to the highest standards. Even so, many clubs and individuals choose to make compromises that I'm not willing to accept, in the name of appealing to what I consider a generally disinterested public. For instance, a Free-mo group local to me has chosen to build their modules with 42" legs rather than the standard 50", specifically so their modular layouts will be more accessible to kids. That is commendable if your target audience is kids, but it makes the same modules less accessible for the adults who build and operate them.

I build models for my own enjoyment, and take pride and pleasure in pushing the limits of my abilities at every opportunity. That's what the hobby means to me, and why I do it.

--
Jostein

This isn't how I see our

This isn't how I see our hobby, lets compare it to golf.  You would have golf courses but they would be hidden, not telling many guys about it as some one might destroy something on the golf course, or steal furniture or something.  We don't want young people on the golf course, they might wreck the grass, or just horse around, or maybe try to throw balls at the T cup. The golf courses would all be designed around the transition era, you know when course went from quaint to modern, so course designs would be stalled in the late 40's to 50's.

When competition was held at the course, most club members wouldn't volunteer but they would criticize everything about the competition.  And most wouldn't want to join the club which would cost around $50 for the year, after all they clubs to buy, clothing to replace, shoes to re-cleat.

Let me make it more clear where I am

Some people can sell one item and not another.  Some people can organize.  My niche in this is being the counselor who sits with the Scouts and teaches the class, then works with them to build their own models.  It has taken several sessions to arrive at the number of scouts I can handle in a given class (15 per class is about right for ME).

Do I think there are other ways to promote model railroading?  yes.  Do I haul a modular layout to a show and help set it up and run it?  No, actually I don't.  Even for Merit badge Academy - do I collect the money?  (The actual charge goes mostly to lunch for the scout and insurance, and paying a fee for the hall, this time they hit my scouts with a supplies fee of 5$ (but they went home with a $20 car)).  I do also get out there and solicit reduced fees / donations for the things I am using in the class.  I do own my own overhead projector and supply the PC to run it.

So, for me, as long as a fellow model railroader does 1.  Not cause me extra work in my chosen method of bringing youth to the hobby.  2. recognizes that this is my way of doing it.  Then I am fine with it.  Not everyone is cut out to work with youth.

Live for today

It sounds like this op-ed is a case of "live for today because tomorrow you will die."  With an attitude as expressed in the column, we will all die and the hobby along with us.

limited membership

Finally someone says what many of us are thinking. I joined two 7 1/2" gauge clubs, both 150 miles from my location.  What I discovered is that they are all committed to running trains for week-end visitors and kids' birthday parties. They are not so much a club operating and building trains, but a volunteer run  amusement park. Not really interested...

modular layout height

A really major cost is installing plexiglass to keep the hands of little tykes, juvenile delinquents and even envious adults from touching delicate details, being amazed at plastic water, and trying to crowd up close blocking anyone else from seeing or watching.

Uggh...the youth thing again?

Every hobby I'm in  from ham radio to RC to trains constantly has someone lamenting the fact that there are not enough "youth" involved or has someone opining about it or worrying about how to get youth involved before the hobby  "dies". Funny thing is, I've been seeing these type of worries for years and years  and somehow the hobby never actually does die. Much ado about nothing.  Not to say I don't applaud what guys like James do, he should be commended for it, but I'd bet  getting youth involved in the train hobby or any other hobby is not near the issue that some make it out to be.

Michael

I love this article

The most humorous thing to me was how the guys in the club do noting to promote the hobby! Clearly they do just that but in different ways. Guests show up with members to see the layout. People hear about them and show up to watch but are not allowed to just watch, they get involved in some way. They organize a swap meet every year. They have visits from the opsig and the NMRA scheduled. They are promoting the hobby but just not in the way a lot of people think promoting the hobby is done. Further they make the comment that visitors come away with some new knowledge from their visit.

It sounds like they are opening some eyes and showing folks by getting them involved and that sure does promote the hobby. I think it is interesting that by doing this they have targeted the non beginner audience which seems a lot like the audience of this magazine. I am not implying that a beginner would not be welcome here or at the club in the article but that most of the things are geared to folks that are past the beginner stage which really makes the most sense, how long can one remain a beginner anyway? The beauty of this approach is that the folks that have begun and show an interest in the hobby now have a place to continue to develop their skills and talents and be inspired by others with similar goals.

I am not putting anyone who works with beginners down as that is a tremendous goal to take beginners and turn them into something else, modelers. James I think what you do with the Scouts is fantastic. It now seems that after you get them started on the path someone else needs to do something like the club listed above to keep them in the hobby.

Really love the article and it's subtle misdirection.

Big Tent

This hobby has room for introverts, extroverts, rivet counters, toy collectors, historians, electricians, machinists, artists, woodworkers, photographers, mechanical engineers, CAD specialists, writers, brass collectors, tinkers, and spectators to name a few. Why not have focused operators in private clubs? The more the merrier!

How many other specialties or special interests can you add?

To the end specified above

I have loved working with the scouts for the last 42+ years.  And I will continue to do so as long as I can.  Probably a by product of not having any children of my own (That's a different issue.)  And with the MBA, 1 of the handouts, and something I verbally reinforce, is to invite the students to visit my train club.  It is up to the club members there, if they visit, to take over and "reel them in", I just set the hook.

And it is thru this forum and the magazine, that I have made my materials available, so anyone can join me, without having to reinvent the wheel for the whole process.  I am also thankful for the 1 scouter that has shown up at 3 different MBA sessions now to help with the model build section of the class.  You can see his photo in the original article, and this time I made sure he got a copy of the magazine to take home with him.

So, bottom line, either help with "promoting" the hobby, or don't.  Just don't get between me and my chosen method of "promoting".  And yes, recognize that we are all different and we have different ways of doing things.  My method is not for everyone, but if you want to come help me, I will welcome you with open arms, and and I wil share volunteer points with you towards your NMRA volunteer AP certificate.  (I have mine, my wife is 6 points shy of her AP cert too).

...

I've known a club like this.  This club then one day realized they were a bit short on membership and we have to raise the dues $5 a month with threats that it'd have to go up another $5 soon if things didn't change.

So they did a couple promotions to get more people into the club.  It worked...

When I left they were doing well again.

Model Railroader 1984

I was just looking at an old MR from 1984, they were talking about how we need more youth in the hobby and predicting that the hobby would die out in 10 years. Well, it's been 30 years since then and there are more people involved than ever with a vast array of products available. I don't see any need to "promote" the hobby beyond having shows that show off good modelling.

It's a hobby for us old farts, and I am completely fine with that since I am firmly in the "old fart" category. It is great to work with the Scouts or other youth groups if you enjoy it but don't feel obligated if it is not your cup of tea.

The most humorous thing to me

This, I didn't see the article as an indication of not promoting the hobby, rather that they promoted the hobby in a different way.

I have no problem with individuals or groups that do not have an interest in actively promoting the hobby. That's fine. I do have a problem with people who join clubs that make promotion a part of the club charter and then actively avoid or discourage that promotion.

Our club's charter says specifically we promote and educate about the hobby. I take offense to club member who signed on the dotted line agreeing to the bylaws and then gripe and complain or simply don't show up for our open houses.

I don't do anything about it, because the rent must be paid, but man. Go join a different club that doesn't do shows if you aren't interested.  

Club Promotion?

I don't quite understand a few of the leading questions in the conversation recorded in the article.

I would say my club is very much the same way as the one in the article, which does sound to me pretty well-known and popular at least in its local area if membership is considered "full" and basically has a waiting list. The club's purpose is to build and operate a large realistic layout. 

We don't run shows and other "public outreach" events as that's not our club's focus. Other groups do that. I don't see every club out there as having a moral obligation to do public shows or swap meets or to display modular layouts (our club is building a permanent layout). Individual members of the club might also be involved with other groups that organize such a thing and that would be awesome, but for the club itself to spend time on things would be a distraction from our focus to build the primary layout.

We have one public open house in the fall and we also participate in a area-wide layout tour in the spring. We try to promote ourselves on facebook and on a couple of forums and at local train shows sure, but this is probably about 90% to other modelers.

One could in theory make the same argument as in the article that our club is not doing much to promote the hobby to newcomers and the general public, but I actually don't see the problem with this.

Different Strokes

I think the analogy above about the golf course was a good start. There are driving ranges and inexpensive par 3 courses for those who are trying to bring people into the hobby. There are slightly more expensive public courses for those who are developing their skills, but are pretty good. And then there are high end private courses for those who enjoy smaller crowds but are willing to pay for it.

None are wrong, they are all just different ways of enjoying the hobby. I think it is great there are people out there trying to introduce the hobby to the next generation, but we also need to have our higher end courses in place for those who are in the hobby already, to expand their horizons and show them what else is possible. We need those layouts to complete the cycle. Don't be offended if it isn't open to the kids, they have their venues. We need to make sure we don't neglect any aspect of the hobby.

Karl Andraschko

The Skally Line

http://www.ambersub.blogspot.com

The "youth" thing...

Michael hit the nail on the head with the myth of the "not enough youth" line. That may have been the way most entered the hobby in the 1950's, back when model railroading was a fad that almost every adolescent male got into at some point (like online gaming is currently). But this ended decades ago, and the way people enter the hobby now is very different.

You simply need to "people watch" at train shows and hobby shops to see how people enter the hobby now. It is done in adulthood.

Basically it does start by some sort of past introduction (uncle having a layout, grandfather's O-scale discovered in an estate, visiting a toy show, etc) that occurs at any age (not necessarily childhood). There is then a long period where "life" takes precedence; and once the individual has a family, stable job, disposable income and (most importantly) time to seek a challenging hobby, then they (hopefully) remember that old introduction to model railroading.

I think this is where clubs and other organizations can help, by providing that initial introduction. Simply by existing and opening doors to the public, seeds are planted. Just don't expect newbies joining overnight.

Oh, and that 'death of the hobby' stuff is total garbage. According to manufacturers the hobby has made small, but measurable increases in sales each year over the past two decades. Jim Scorse (NCE) spoke of this in a podcast just a few weeks ago.