Great article

Ken,

I really enjoyed your article and the images from your layout are great.  I didn't know enough about the steel industry before to realize how diverse the operation is.  Thanks for enlightening me!

Ken, Just a note to give

Ken,

Just a note to give kudos for this outstanding article.  Looking forward visiting your layout at some point to make some steel!

You're always welcome to crew on the WM to haul some coal to the furnace!

Great publication.

Lee

steel mill article

An excellent article - just the right amount of prototype information, many clear and informative  photos of the prototype in different eras and their model representation.

I also liked the reference to scratch-building and the offer of more articles on that topic.   The expression "granularity of detail" was new to me - a clear and useful phrase.

Art Armstrong - Artarms

Larsen's Steel Mill Article

Outstanding article; I had copied your representation of the BOF last year when he posted some photos on the Yahoo Steel Group.

This e-magazine is great; I'm only at page 31 so far, habing downloaded it today, but I would certainly be willing to pay for a subscription of this sort of content keeps appearing!  Keep uop the great work!

David Martin,  Ph.D.

David, we intend to remain free

David:

Our business model is advertisers pay the freight - the magazine is to stay free forever.

The idea is a free mediaZine like this one will get the widest possible distribution and advertisers pay to ride along.

It's worked for broadcast TV for decades - why not for an internet mediaZine?

Steel Industry

Thanks Ken for a well-done, insightful, and informative article ... I am in the early stages of modeling the W&LE, circa 2006. and will include the Wheeling-Pittsburgh steel mill @ Mingo Jct., OH.  Your article is proving to be most timely.  Thanks again and "bring on more!"

Thanks "Joe & Co."

Thanks Joe for having the vision, perserverance, and patience to present us with such a terrific product as Issue 1!  I don't know why we should be surprised after seeing your work in the modeling press and via your videos ... best wishes for future great success!

Steel Industry

,Ken

Excellent article, very informative and yes please more articles from you on scratch building for the steel industry.

Joe/Ken

Would it be possible to do a re-visit to this layout? I would be very interested in seeing the track plan and even more interested in reading about Ken's ops sessions.

The latter comment comes from really being a newbie to the hobby. I've just re-newed my MR subscription and also subscribed to a British version. As a newbie (who has no access what-so-ever to a club or a club style layout) the art of ops is of great interest to me. Yes, wonderful showcase photo's inspire, but I'd also like MRH to delve deeper into the art of running the layout. If possible even down to showing where the consist originates from in the staging yard (fiddle yard to us Brits) and maybe colour coding a route diagram; maybe too much, but it is something I think is missing from the magazines I currently read.

Top quality Joe, keep it coming!

Tim

Shanghai, PRC

Newbie to Operations

Tim said:

"As a newbie (who has no access what-so-ever to a club or a club style layout) the art of ops is of great interest to me."

"I'd also like MRH to delve deeper into the art of running the layout."

Tim,

I'm a relative newbie too, especially in the area of operations.  I am finding myself becoming more interested in operations though.  I think hanging around the MRH crowd in this forum has had a lot to do with that fledgling interest growing to a real hunger for realistic operation.

Like you, I too have no access to a club layout.  Because I have no idea what goes on at an OP's session I have been thinking of getting Joe's operating session DVD's available from model-trains-video.com.

Just yesterday I received Joe's scenery DVD's and after watching them I am looking forward to seeing the whole series on building his HO scale Siskiyou line.  The quality of the DVD's is such that I will be ordering the set of three OP's DVD's in the near future.

If you want to see my reveiw of the scenery DVD's it is in my blog post entitled, "model-trains-videos".

In any event.  This sure is an exciting time to be a model railroader!

Your steel mill article is a hit!

This is great article. I really liked it.

However, in the spririt of offering constructive criticism, I'd like to say a few things.

You've merely wet the appetite for more. And many of the things you've said might be more easily understod by some voice overs connected with the photos. Personally, I would be interested in seeing how you set up your layout to accomodate the different buildings and how operations and switching works between the various buildings and both incoming and outgoing traffic to and from other places on the layout.

I realize that just getting the first issue of the magazine out was a major undertaking but now that you've done such a great job you might want to keep offering more things that could use all of the capabilities of that the technology offers in future issues.

Irv

Steel Mill

Ken

A great article I hope you will continue to write more about this interesting subject.

Thanks Russ the loghauler

So Far So Good.

So Far So Good.

Wow, I never would've imagined...

Hi all, my apologies for the late response - I wasn't sure when this site was going to be fully functional again, so I've been immersed in making changes to the layout to optimize my planned op sessions.

Quote=BlueHillsCPR:

Ken,

I really enjoyed your article and the images from your layout are great.  I didn't know enough about the steel industry before to realize how diverse the operation is.  Thanks for enlightening me!

Regards, Kevin

Thanks for the kind words Kevin - glad you enjoyed it!

Quote=wm3796:

Ken,

Just a note to give kudos for this outstanding article.  Looking forward visiting your layout at some point to make some steel!

You're always welcome to crew on the WM to haul some coal to the furnace!

. . .

Lee

Lee - great to see you over here at MRH!  My visit to your Thomas Sub last year, that is what inspired me to try hosting op sessions myself.  Finally had one in mid-November, and it was more fun than I ever imagined.  I'll definitely have you over here[hopefully within the next month or two] once I've got all the 'kinks' worked out.

Quote=Artarms:

An excellent article - just the right amount of prototype information, many clear and informative  photos of the prototype in different eras and their model representation.

I also liked the reference to scratch-building and the offer of more articles on that topic.   The expression "granularity of detail" was new to me - a clear and useful phrase.

Art Armstrong

Art, thank you for the kind words!  I figured I had to say something about scratchbuilding because, there's only so much you can do with the WKW kits.  I'll consider doing articles on the things I actually scratch-built - the blast furnace (except for the cast house), the BOF, and the ore bridge.  As for the "granularity-of-detail" thing - I know guys like Dean Freytag, Jeff Borne, and Mike Rabbit, whose work makes mine look like a rank amateur.  Maybe after I retire and have more free time I'll consider trying to emulate them...

Quote=dmeephd:

Outstanding article; I had copied your representation of the BOF last year when he posted some photos on the Yahoo Steel Group.
. . .
David Martin,  Ph.D.

Thank you David, the BOF was my first major scratch project and I neglected to document that one as closely as I did the blast furnace and the ore bridge.  Glad you found my photos useful at least, I'd like to see some of the BOF that you made from them!

Quote=Jim Talbot:

Thanks Ken for a well-done, insightful, and informative article ... I am in the early stages of modeling the W&LE, circa 2006. and will include the Wheeling-Pittsburgh steel mill @ Mingo Jct., OH.  Your article is proving to be most timely.  Thanks again and "bring on more!"

Jim, thanks and glad you enjoyed it!  I have always loved the old "pig-tailed" blast furnaces at Mingo, haven't seen any like those at any other mill.  Sadly, they're cold and scheduled for demolition.  [BTW I have a daughter attending college just up the hill in Steubenville, so I'm in that neighborhood every October when the school hosts Parents Weekend...]

Quote=illucypher:

Ken

Excellent article, very informative and yes please more articles from you on scratch building for the steel industry.

Joe/Ken

Would it be possible to do a re-visit to this layout? I would be very interested in seeing the track plan and even more interested in reading about Ken's ops sessions.

. . .

Top quality Joe, keep it coming!

Tim

Shanghai, PRC

Tim, thanks and I'll try to crank out something soon.  Just need to budget my time accordingly.  In the meantime I'll start making regular blog entries on the op sessions I plan to have - I only started hosting this past November so I'm still a "noob" at it myself!  I put a graphic of my track plan in one of my earlier posts, I'll try to dig up the URL and post it here.

Quote=pandwvrr:

Ken the ore pile in your opening picture it looks great. It looks like the ore piles we had at USDS Clairton Works when the shut it down. What did you use? The second thing is your slag pile is the picture photo retouched or is that the real thing. I have tried it but the results where not so good. How did you do it?

I really enjoyed the article .keep up to good work.

Tom Wilson

Tom, thanks - coming from a veteran steel modeler like yourself that really means a lot to me!  Interesting that you mentioned the ore - that's simply Woodland Scenics "Iron Ore" ballast sprinkled over some crumpled aluminum foil.  I've been planning to replace that with something that resembles taconite, since pure red iron ore was no longer used much during my modeling era (early 1990's).  As for the slag dump photo - my original caption, which for some reason was not printed in its entirety, mentioned that I digitally "sprayed on" the smoke rising from the poured-out slag and de-valued the colors of some of the background structures to give  the illusion of distance.  The blue sky background is a few 4x8 sheets of blue extruded insulation foam that I leaned in front of the garage door to cover that and other trainroom eyesores...


Quote=feldman718:

This is great article. I really liked it.

However, in the spririt of offering constructive criticism, I'd like to say a few things.

You've merely wet the appetite for more. And many of the things you've said might be more easily understod by some voice overs connected with the photos. Personally, I would be interested in seeing how you set up your layout to accomodate the different buildings and how operations and switching works between the various buildings and both incoming and outgoing traffic to and from other places on the layout.

I realize that just getting the first issue of the magazine out was a major undertaking but now that you've done such a great job you might want to keep offering more things that could use all of the capabilities of that the technology offers in future issues.

Irv

Hi Irv, and thanks for your input.  I've been following your blog posts about your planned rail-marine based layout. 

I penned this article 20 months ago, when Joe first announced he was planning to do the MRH project.  I haven't [yet] bought a video camera or any of that other slick techno-stuff, but I sure hope to get to that point someday.  As I said in my reply to Tom W., I mentioned in the original caption that my slag pic was digitally enhanced (smoke) but those words were apparently edited out in the final copy.  I always try to state upfront when I do something like that.

Since it appears that people are interested, I guess I will be doing some more articles on my layout - the ops and scratchbuilding.

Quote=Russell Hayes:

Ken

A great article I hope you will continue to write more about this interesting subject.

Thanks Russ the loghauler

Russ, thanx and I'm glad you liked it.  I'll try to get some new material to Joe and the gang now that I see people are actually interested!

Quote=Flatonia Subdivision:

So far so good.

Flats, thank you for the vote of confidence!

-ken
 

Appendix / Resource update

Ken,

My email address has changed. Anyone interested in my Steel Mill photo CD's/ DVD's should contact me at b.e.brosnan@cox.net. I now have 8 differnt ones available plus a combo pack of everything on one DVD. 

Brendan

Will do, Brendan!

OK Brendan, I'll make sure your correct email address gets into the next article's appendix. 

Issue 1 and Steel Mill Article

First of all congratulations on your first issue of MRH!  It is great reading and we are looking forward to the next issue.  Keep up the excellent work.

Thanks Ken for a very informative article on Steel Mills.  I am at the moment building a large layout and this article appeared just in time to help me decide on an industry for the layout.  The layout is a modern Era V German (DBAG) layout and the idea is to transport the raw materials to the steel mill from a river harbour and also the finished products back to the river harbour.

My question:  Would it be correct to assume that the same principles for steel mills as set out in your excellent article as well as the references listed at the end of the article may be applied to steel mills in Germany?

I am looking forward to the next chapter from Ken on steel mills!

Enjoy our fascinating and rewarding hobby!

Thanks and regards from Johannesburg, South Africa.

Johan de Villiers 

Steelmaking in Germany

Hello Johan, and thank you for the kind words.

I'm not much of an expert on the German steel industry, other than that they are pretty much the technology leaders of the world in steelmaking.  I imagine the general principles would be the same, just the architecture and machinery would look slightly different. 

If you haven't already done so, I'd recommend visiting two excellent forums devoted to steel modeling:

The Steel Heritage Discussion Board and the Yahoo STEEL Group.  The Yahoo group has more traffic, while the Steel Heritage forum has a better format for photographs.  Both forums have a number of knowledgeable members from around the world, including several from Germany.  One of them is Harald Finster, a well-known photographer of industrial landscapes in Europe - do a Google search on his name and you'll find several links.

In any case, best of luck - be sure to share pictures of your work with us!

Harald Finster

Ken,

Thanks for sharing the info on steel mills. I Google Harald Finster's name and sure enough there is plenty of his photos. Modeling just a steel mill could take a whole room just by itself. That could be a lifetime project. A lot of intricate stuff.

Steelmaking in Germany

Hi ken,

Thanks for the reply and info.

Kind regards.

Johan de Villiers

Probably not in my lifetime

Quote=jarhead: "Modeling just a steel mill could take a whole room just by itself. That could be a lifetime project. A lot of intricate stuff."

Nick - LOL, you got that one right!  You might have noticed, most of the shots of my layout are from across the room rather than closeup - that's because I don't have nearly enough time to do the quality of detailed modeling that Dean Freytag and his contemporaries do.  I want to take my time and actually run my trains once in awhile!

Lifetime

My friend and I were looking at your layout and he told me as much as I like switching I should've done an steel mill. As much as I have been around industrial sites I have never been in a steel mill or close to it. In matter of fact you are the one that really open my eyes to it. (You see you never stop learning). I am so impressed and so fascinated with it.

It is true what you said, if you do the intricate parts you will never run trains. It would be a monumental task ! But it would be awesome !!!!

Unfortunately, this article is going to be pulled

Just found out from John Glaab that some portion of the content in this article came directly from his clinic on Modeling Steel Mills and that material is copywritten by him. John was never asked if it was okay for Ken to use the copywritten material (although Ken did give John Glaab some credit, but explicit permission is also required for copywritten material) so John has asked that we kill this article.

We were not aware that Ken used John's copyrighted material verbatim, and while we don't believe Ken did this maliciously, we also do not condone plagiarism of copyrighted material without permission, even if done niavely.

We are immediately removing this article from issue 1, and in its place posting an apology to John Glaab. We're also updating our contributor guidelines to make it very clear that you must either own the material you are presenting, or get permission from the author if you are basing your article on content that another has previously put together in some form elsewhere.

John Glaab's business is Peach Creek Shops, and you can find more about what John's firm is doing with Steel Mill modeling here.

Unfortunately, this article is going to be pulled

I was wonder about the issue you raised here.

I've accumulated alot of material in my research on car floats and this includes lots of text as well as pictures. Unfortunately many of the pictures came from sources unknown to me though they illustrated some of the web sites I looked at. Getting permission for a good number of those photos may be difficult since I don't know who owns the rights to the or even if the poster got permission to post them as well. Some of these photos are obviously old since the scenes depicted took place before 1960 and so might have expired copyrights anyway but of that I can't be sure either. So here is the question that I am sure is the back of everyone's mind.

How do you know what has and what has not been copyrighted?

Irv

Fair use applies, too

When the heart of your article is material lifted verbatim from someone's clinic, it's pretty obvious you may have an infrigement situation.

When your article includes a small piece of something that's copywritten and that small piece is not the main theme of your article, then fair use applies. If it wasn't for fair use, people would be so scared of infringement that much material would simply never get used.

Fair use is what allows the history channel, for instance, to show an image of a Coca Cola logo in their video on the history of American Industry without permission from Coke Corp and not get sued. Same with us.

So don't get all wrapped around the axle about this. Just apply due diligence and common sense. And if you know the source and can ask permission, then ask. Don't just assume.