Excellent

I'm installing switch machines soon so I found this very interesting. Only comments I have are:

 Why wasn't there a quick explanation/demonstration of the heat shrink? Seems like you will have to undo your last switch to put the shrink on it.

I've soldered critical audio and control wiring (recording studios) for decades and never needed to use additional flux when using good rosin core solder and new components. Only on old or dirty components.

Good Point

Thanks Rick

You're completely right about the heat shrink tubing, it would need to go on before soldering the wires to the LED and then slide over the top. 

As for the flux, I don't know a lot about soldering and pretty much follow what other people suggest. I did notice that when I used some flux on the wire before soldering to it the solder would absorb into the wire strands much better compared to not using flux. 

Thanks is for the great feedback and tips about solder, I didn't know the solder contained a binder type material in it, as you can probably see from the video, my soldering technique could do with some practice.

cheers

Luke

Great Video

But what about snap switches like PECO PL-10's

I like this.

I just am wondering if it will work with momentary switches needed for PECO snap switches.  

The momentary burst of power is needed to throw the switch and then no power.,  What would power the LED?  

I know I can do this with PL-15 add on's to each switch but these will set me back about $15 each plus shipping.  I need about 8 more PL-15's.  OR I could go to a DCC stationary for about the same money - but to be consistent I'd want to power about 12 that way.  so three of the 4 unit ones.  or six of the two unit ones.  

A two step system could work - flip switch then press button - but no guarantee that I remembered to press button or that the other button was not pressed by mistake - not the best plan.  

Or just always through the switch approaching the turnout whether it needs it or not just to be safe.  That's the cheapest and easiest  (no LED's needed).  

What to do? 

Thanks

Hi Geo

Thanks for the comment, yes I am planning on posting updates on the module here.
It's been slow going at the moment but I'm planning to ramp up production on the module once we have finished moving house.

Cheers
Luke Towan

Questions

I think you're right David, this wiring setup wouldn't work with the switch setup I'm using for the powered switch machines like tortoise and cobalt. But the two step system you suggest would definitely work, you'd just need to remember to do the two steps, one flick the switch which would change the LED's and then press the momentary power button to get the point to change.

That way the LED's would work and display the direction of the point.

I personally like having the LED's on the control panel, it really helps when planning a route, its quick and easy to see if there are any switches that need changing.

Thanks
Luke

PL-13 it is

Yes - a two step process would work but "sub-optimal".  I've decided to go ahead and just install the PL-13's which are basically mounting DPDT (or maybe SPDT) switches right onto the PL-10 Peco solenoid motor and then the LED lights will light based on the way the switch is physically set.  

I've just got to figure out if I can use the PL-13 to simultaneously light my LED panel and route power to the live frog on the same switch at the same time.  I think that will work.  I have one electro-frog PL-13 installed on a switch now will experiment with attaching and LED and see what happens.  OR I find the answer directly on-line.  

control panel wiring

Great video.

How much easier it would be to use a dual power supply (that is +12, 0v, -12) .

Also I use dual colour LEDs to clearly indicate the route with a LED showing GREEN when that route is selected and showing RED when that route is not selected.

Wal 

Modelling UP down in OZ.

Control Panel Wiring

Great video.

I belong to a club and have been putting tortoise stall motors on most of the switches.  We have placed a SPDT switch in line with the tortoise and a red/green led for the panel.  We have a pair of 12 v led screen power supplies with isolated output, i.e the output ground side is not attached to the neutral/ground of the power input.  The negative side of one power supply is connected to the positive side of the second creating a +12, 0, -12 setup.  The +12 is placed on one side of the SPDT switch, the - 12 to the other.  The pole is routed to the LED on the panel and then to one side of the turnout motor. The other side of the motor is run to supply ground.  All switches are thrown down to indicate green or main line routing, red when thrown up.  The indications of routing can be changed by reversing the wiring to the switch motor.

As the leds are in series with the tortoise machines the current is automatically limited to 20ma, the stall current of the machine.  Another indication of operation is the LED dims while the motor is running, changes color when the switch is thrown and brightens to full bright when the machine stalls. 

It works very well.

Don

Control Panel Wiring

I like what you did. Another way to power LED's  when using the Tortoise machines, is that you can actually put a Bi-Color LED in series with the machine's control wires. One direction will display Red, the other direction will display Green. The tortoise draws a low enough current that you don't need resistors for the LED's. You can even put one Bi-color LED on your panel, and another one (as a signal) right at the turnout, both in series with the tortoise control wire.  

Thanks, great feedback

Using dual color LED's sounds like a good idea.
Thanks Don for your description, I'll have to have a go at using dual power supply +12, 0, -12. I don't know anything about this type of setup and it sounds really confusing to me right now but with a bit of investigation I think it will all become clear.
I also plan to illuminate signals on my layout as well, this method might just do the trick.

Do you have any issues with the LED's being too bright when connected in series with the switch machine? I tried this a little while ago and found the LED's were very bright. With a congested control panel and 20 LED's all closely spaced it was hard to look at the control panel without a welders mask on (a little exaggeration)

Cheers 
Luke

I do it like this

I use a micro switch moved by the point, that way the panel shows what has happened not just what you wanted to happen.

http://noarail.com/members2/v/Tony/Help+Files/Panel+indicator.jpg.html

David you will see that you need two micro switches (or a dual) I actually use just the one and have it drive the LEDs and also a relay that does the frog and power routing.

Tony

Two?

Hmmm,  I read this post and thought a PL-13 would work.

Just ordered them. 

I see that the PL-15 could work better - at twice the price.  But I only have a couple of electro-frogs.  Might be able to avoid using them altogether.  

But this fella seems to show frog and LED controlled by one PL-13

http://www.009.cd2.com/members/how_to/indicators.htm 

Two or dual is better

Yes that will work for DCC as it has an alternating pulse and constant power but there should be a protection diode in the green wire between the LEDs and the "T" to the frog or the LEDs may blow on the reverse current. The main drawback is that in a short/shutdown condition there will be no indication as there is no track power.

For DC this will only work when there is track power and if the diodes are set inside a full wave bridge rectifier as the polarity is reversed to change direction.

And just for clarity there is no such thing as a 12 volt LED, that is just a LED with a resistor attached.

Tony

New Thread

I fear this may be high jacking the original post so will post my reply in a new section.  I'm wondering about a bit of a work around short of ordering a PL-15 or two.  

Continue this conversation about PECO switch controls and LED's  here:  https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/peco-turnout-and-control-panels-with-pl13-accessory-12198239 

Thanks for the tips

I really like the idea of using dual colored LED's, I wanted to try using them but they didn't have any at the electronics store so I went with the single color ones. I am pretty new to electronics and when you mention +12, 0, -12, I'm like...... what the?? I suppose I should go and do some research and work out exactly how you are connecting the LED's.

On a second note, using the LED's in series with the switch machine, do you find the brightness of the LED over powering? I tried connecting LED's directly to the switch machine and found the output was way too bright, especially with a bunch on closely spaced LED's. Any thought?

Thanks for your input 
Cheers, Luke

bi-polar LED's on eBay

Don't know if you shop down by d'Bay but I did scout out a few "bi-polar" LED's.  I believe that means they have two colours not mood swings.  cheap on eBay - one can hope they are acceptable quality but you do end up buying a large lot of them.  

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/221467722811?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 

Thats on eBay.ca (Canada) but look for  colorfulplace888 ebay store.  I'm sure there are other vendors. 

At $5.00 for 50 worth checking out.  

Anyone have a different ebay electronics distributor they recommend?  I've not done any business with this store, just stumbled upon them looking for these two colour LED's.  

Here is one fella's idea for bi-polars.  He calls for a 680 ohm resistor - Tony recommends more 1K to 2K.  Still sorting that out. 

http://nscaleadventures.blogspot.ca/2011/03/wiring-peco-switch-machines-part-2.html  

Switch type

David,

One thing I can't see mentioned in the text for this :-

http://nscaleadventures.blogspot.ca/2011/03/wiring-peco-switch-machines-part-2.html

Is that the SPDT switch needs to be a Momentary action type. i.e. it returns to center. If you used a normal locking switch you would have to return the switch to the center after throwing it or none of the other turnouts could be thrown as the CDU will not recharge until the switch is released. No damage would occur to the Peco motor though as the CDU protects it. That is of course why a CDU should ALWAYS be used with these coil type switch motors.

Personally I would rather used a couple of push buttons mounted in the tracks on the panel rather than have the switch mounted nearby. If you have a yard with lots of turnouts it can be a trial sometimes to find the correct switch. You can get PB's with the LED mounted in the switch which is a really elegant solution but they are usually more expensive than the individual switch and LED.

Momentary is a must

Yep, either push button of other type of momentary is needed.  

I'm looking to make my control panel as described my Mike Fifer in his YouTube - I like that 3D look.  The push buttons are on the map of the track you want to take - although I'm wonder about this one (well two) buttons to throw two switches for a cross over. 

Obviously the crossing over part is simple - stick the button on the panel between the two turn outs.  But where do you put the other button?  Besides the other one as in this sketch (blue are momentary push buttons and red-green are LED's).  Or should I put in two momentaries right on the track line with both of them doing the same thing by throwing both turn outs?  

Here's Mikes most excellent YouTube again: 

@david

Have you considered putting the push buttons on the "Frogs" like this?

By using 4 LED's, you can tell that both turnouts are thrown for the cross over correctly as well.  

Andrew

Crossover

Andrew & David,

The 2 buttons in Andrews diagram appear to me to set one turnout? How do you change the turnouts back?

Personally I would install 3 switches one where the gap is in the angled line and one next to each of the red LED's. Push the middle PB will set both turnouts to curved. Push either of the other PBs will set both turnouts to straight.

Why throw both turnouts together? Have you ever seen an instance when a crossover needs to have only one turnout thrown to the curve? I can't think of one.

Why three switches and not two? I like my control panels to be balanced (slightly OCD I guess!!) and I don't like to have to think about which switch to throw. Two would work adequately but three looks better to me. David the way your diagram is drawn to me is not intuitive. The button out on its own does not seem to relate to the crossover. Remember you may know this as it is your layout but you need to design your panels so a novice to your layout can look at a panel and "get it".

Three buttons could work

Graeme that's a good point and an idea worth pursing.

Don't think there would be any issues with wiring two buttons to do exactly the same thing.  

Wiring 2 PBs

Wiring 2 PBs is no problem if they are simple one contact switches or Center off momentary contact toggles just wire in parrallel. However if using PB Toggle switches it becomes more complex. You would need to use DPDT versions and wire them like two reversing switches in series (I think). I haven't actually drawn the circuit but I think that would work.

Just for grins I have some

Just for grins I have some photos of our dispatchers panel for the HO layout at my club. Most places will not need something like this but it is interesting to look at. It operates signals, has detection, and controls turn outs. We also have local control panels at various locations and our dcc dc interface that allows one to run either dcc or dc on our layout. In addition to that there is the manual that covers the panel and much of the club layout although we do need to do some updates on it.

The two photos above show some over all shots of the front and back of the dispatchers panel. This was built by one man who bought everything and decided to build this one day. It is my understanding that this contains lots of recycled wire that one of our members was able to salvage from building updates.

As you can see a panel is not complete with out a comprehensive manual to show schematics of circuits, wiring diagrams and pictures of connections and installations on the layout. The pages have many photos showing the signal and detction systems as well as the dcc hook ups that are else where as well as the switch routing circutry and the aspects that can be shown. The manual is still being added to. The picture below shows our member responsible for all this magic. Bob T. an electrical engineer by trade put all of the stuff together and literally wrote the book on it. In addition to being tremendously talented he is a genuine all around great guy, every club should have one guy like this.